question about vacum sealer

[Costas Courcoubetis]

I :unsure: just ordered the LAVA vacuum sealer V100 premium, http://www.lava-europe.com
Is this a good choice? does it work well with the DrybagSteak bags? It is about 2.5 times more expensive compared to the retractable snorkel sealer proposed here (which I also use, but I am not so happy with the results, especially if there is some fluid in the bag, many times the case for sous vide cooking). Any idea from the experts?

[Ron Pratt]

I have NO knowledge of that machine which appears to be well made and highly capable for vacuum sealing – HOWEVER I question how it is any different in nature than a Food Saver brand. It appears it uses a channel type of bags which permits the air to be extracted before sealing. That type of machine will not work on the Drybag material since in spite of the bag being full of air like a balloon the Drybag material near the unit will collapse triggering your new machine into sealing. That is the reason the snorkel machine works better. OTOH given some practice and use of your new machine’s tubing you should be able to extract sufficient air and then somehow seal the opening perhaps with a twisty or such.

Ron

[Costas Courcoubetis]

Dear Ron,
thanks for your quick answer. I was not sure what channel sealers are. I understand from your explanation that channel bags are made so that there are “channels” left in the fabric which do not collapse when the air is sucked out of the bag. Is this the kind of bags used also by sous-vide Supreme? I got some of these for sous vide. When I looked at the Lava vacuum sealer it did not restrict the type of bags (does not explicitly specify “channel type bags”). I just looked more carefully now to the bags sold in their website and indeed they seem to be ragged. So just to make sure I got it right:
a) any non-snorkel and non-chamber type of vacuum sealer is of a channel type?
b) channel pouches are different than regular pouches because they are ragged?
In this case I can still use this for sous-vide, and use the snorkel sealer I have for the Drybag steaks. There are no fluid marinade issues there as there are in the case of sous-vide.
And a final question: the best meat for aging must have fat both on its surface AND inside? like the Kobe beef (extreme case)? we should avoid cuts that have no fat like tenderloin or other parts of the beef?

Thanks!

Costas (from Athens)

[Ron Pratt]

Costas,

Please understand I have a very limited knowledge of brand names amongst vacuum sealers – given that here are some pictures which should help you understand the nature of channel bag material. This is a Food Saver bag – notice how this side of it is clear and smooth.

The other side has a bumpy texture to it so that air can be sucked out without causing the bag to collapse on to itself.

These type of bags are unlike the Drybag material which is smooth on both sides.

As for fat being needed for aging that’s a bit misleading. I think a better way of explaining is that marbled fat makes the aged meat taste richer. Surface fat will be trimmed off to personal taste, but benefits the aging effort, by meaning there is no or at least less trimming loss of the red meat. Another way to think of it is a fillet or a tenderloin has little or no fat and is already tender – aging will condense the flavor but when many people trim back to red meat there is too much loss.

Ron

[Costas Courcoubetis]

I got it! I only used Drybag up to now. I guess for sous-vide the channel type is great.
Thanks for the explanations. So its more economics than taste… I thought that fat that is inside the meat gets also a richer taste by aging. Actually I thought that this was half of the rich taste we taste. But I guess fat does not change since there are no proteins there. Its just great when it is cooked for adding moisture and burning.
I plan to use sous vide for my steaks (ribeye) after 3 weeks of drying before the BBQ. Good idea?

costas

[Ron Pratt]

LOL – I’m not sure if I confused you about the fat or you just confused me! IMO no fat no taste – in fact to me fillets are bland and therefore need a tasty sauce. Yes the fat does age in the drying process and becomes richer – more so than the red meat in my opinion! As for your method of cooking your aged meat THAT will work wonderfully! You can anticipate a wonderful meal! Be sure to report back to the forum!

BTW what is our time difference? Here it’s going on 3:00 in the afternoon and it is Tuesday, 11-22.
Ron

[Costas Courcoubetis]

I just read your posting. We are 7h ahead of NY time.
Great that fat gets richer with aging! This is what my sense of tasting always told me! I will let you know of the results!
Thanks again for all the clarifications.

Costas

[Costas Courcoubetis]

Ron,
please tell me if this idea might work to use a channel sealer with the drubagsteak bags. Suppose I cut the rough surface of a regular channel bag and I insert it in the drybag between the meat and the channel sealer entrance. Then I guess that the dry bag will not collapse since there will be the surface of the channel bag in between. Makes sense?

costas

[Ron Pratt]

Sure it works – in fact here’s a 5 minute YouTube clip I made showing how to do that. You should be able to just click on it and watch it.

[Costas Courcoubetis]

Haha! thanks!
question: the channel bag was just trimmed and then resealed at the edges to become again one piece? or you used the ragged part of the bag for both surfaces of the inserted part? should I increase the time of sealing since now its a double bag?

costas

[Ron Pratt]

yes I trimmed the channel bag to proper width and then sealed the edge making a sleeve – remember I stuck my hand through it near the start of that video? As for increasing the sealing time yes and most important before you do the real thing please practice on some scrap to get the hang of it.

[Costas Courcoubetis]

I used the LAVA V100 with your trick (channel bag in the interior of the dry bag). The results were excellent! the vacuum I got is perfect. No way to get this with the snorkel sealer (I don’t want to downgrade it; you pay what you get! the LAVA costs 2,5 time more…). I enthusiastically recommend it!
I aged the ribeye for 3 weeks. I had to throw a large part of it, and the remaining was very dry and tough. I processed it sous vide for about 12h at 131F. The result was ok, not excellent. The reason was that the meat was tasty but too dry. I gather that I should age it less? say 2 weeks? The truth is that there was not much fat in the meat. (the new cut I age now has lots of fat inside). I wonder if its best to just BBQ it over some nice charcoal…
I forgot: the part of the meat that got too dry was not very thick initially, about 8-9 cm (less than 4 inches). Is it expected to become dry if aged for 3 weeks? there is a rule about thickness?

costas

[Ron Pratt]

3 weeks for a rib eye is actually kinda short in my book – based on your description of the meat being thin and little fat could be on both ends of the probable problem list. First it may have been tender to began with and from a young cow hence it got dried out for lack of thickness and lack of fat – OR to the other extreme of it being from an old cow and the meat was tough to start with. Aging can help poorer quality meat somewhat, but aging isn’t a miracle worker if it has little fat and poor texture to start with.
Ron

[Costas Courcoubetis]

It was a young animal. In greece its hard to find real beef, so most of it its veal. Now I got a better cut. Lets see. But as a rule, if there is no much fat and the thickness is a bit more than 3.5 inches, aging might be not recommended?
Costas

[Costas Courcoubetis]

In case i can find only veal, what do you recommend?

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