The Original Dry Bag Steak | Make Artisan Dry Age Steak at Home › Forums › Dry Aging Steak › Dry Aging Steak with UMAi Dry® › NYKIDIES, cure under a vacuum question
March 9, 2014 at 2:22 am #1885
I have noticed you cure your meat under a vacuum. I like the idea, and would like to try doing this as well. I am assuming the meat would probably cure slightly faster under a vacuum? For instance, I have four duck breasts curing in a plastic container with a lid right now. I am using the UMAI recipe which calls for 7 days. If I were to cure under a vacuum next time, would you leave cure on meat for the full 7 days? What about a larger piece of meat like a lonzino?
Thank youMarch 9, 2014 at 8:32 am #7939
I like using a vacuum to cure my meats because
1. I believe it might be a little faster
2. I like the idea of the meat being in contact with its juices that accumulate in bag which creates a pseudo brine.
3. Brining in a bag is ideal if you plan on rotating/flipping the meat often which I do every 12-24 hours.
I have not looked at their recipe but if they are using an equilibrium cure ( % of salt based on meats weight) vs excess salt (covered in salt) it’s not possible to over cure the meat and it will not become to salty.
I would not shorten the cure time. Better longer than shorter. It’s important to make sure cure reaches center of meat.
hope this helps LloydMarch 9, 2014 at 12:21 pm #7945
Thank you for the reply. Do you happen to know what the correct meat to salt ratio is? Or meat to salt to instacure ratio? Because I know just as long as you have the correct salt to meat ratio then you can add whatever you would like for seasonings….
Is that right?March 9, 2014 at 1:55 pm #7946
Yes I do ……. salt min 2.75. I normally use 3 %. For cure #1 or # 2 (Prague powder ) use exactly .25%. YES THATS A DECIMAL BEFORE THE 2. It’s Point 25%. I have seen people mix this one and add to much.
Use the metric system too, it’s easier to calculate.
Note 1: The weight of meat plus fat is 100%. All ingredients to be added are expressed as a percentage of the weight of meat plus fat. Percentages can be used to standardize recipes regardless of batch size. All weights are metric.
Note 2: No weights are given because the weights of meats vary. Everything is a percentage of the meats weight after trimming. Example- Meat weight 2393 grams and we want to find out the amount of salt we need in grams- 2393 X 3.5%=83.755 or 2392/100 X 3.5 =83.755 grams.
2393g x .25%. = 5.9825 g … Round up to 6.
AFTER YOU GET SALT AND CURE CORRECT AT WHAT YOU WANT FOR SEASONS. I prefer to add salt and cure on to meat first than add seasons.
Get a good scale that measures in micrograms out .01 or .001 grams
I have two. SMART WEIGHT GEM20 digital scale and the ACPPRO-200.
Any questions please ask. We all learn together. All this on an iPhone. At work. Sorry in advance for typos.March 10, 2014 at 12:14 am #7951
Thank you! How do you determine the time meat spends curing? I understand when using the proper amounts of salts you cannot over cure as you previously stated, but how do you determine the amount of time each piece of meat spends curing?
Is the 3% salt, and the .25% cure the same for salami aswell ?
Thanks again!March 10, 2014 at 3:56 am #7952
That is a great question. When I first started I hit every blog you can imagine and followed in the footsteps of the Charcuterie experts. Now I go by by feel and looks. I remember doing a whole beef plate that was just freaking huge and I had no idea how long to cure it so I just followed my instincts and went for 25 days based on feel and looks.
I.E using the equilibrium method I would go at least a week with Duck breast, at least 7-12 days with pork belly for bacon, longer with beef plates and short ribs. Whole muscle Salame such as eye of round needs 14-21 day depending on its thickness. I made whole eye of round into salame (Bresaola) that was quite thin that only needed a 14 day cure but than I made one that weighed 11 lbs and was quite thick and needed 22 days. I would rather err on the side of caution and give it an extra couple of days to make sure cure hits center of meat. I have ran across some reipes for Duck and Bresaola that require you to excess salt the meat and basically encase it entirely in salt. Much shorter curing process but way to salty. You have no control.
Now on to ground up Salami…………..fermented or cooked? Smoked or not? It really depends. 2.75-3.55 works great and .25% works 100% of the time. In fermented Salami I believe they suggest 2% sugar or dextrose.
my all time favorite blog……….. http://curedmeats.blogspot.com/
buy every book by
I would suggest hitting up my blog and looking at some of the books I have suggested and reading some of the links to other blogs.
keep asking questions………….March 10, 2014 at 9:03 am #7953
-I am very interested with determining how long to cure certain cuts of meat in the fridge. Seems like there is no right or wrong answer. I have to pork loins in the fridge curing now. They are both pretty thick and weight about 4 lbs a piece. I am using Len Poli’s recipe for Lonzino for these two loins and he says to cure them for 12 days. After our conversations and reading a bit on the blog site you recommended, I may let the two loins go a little longer. Maybe 14 days?
-Fermented, non smoked salami is what I make most of. It would be great knowing the exact ratio’s to stick with so someone could really experiment with different recipes yet stay safe and confident. I just copy old family recipes due to being afraid of changing anything.March 10, 2014 at 10:09 am #7954
Len Poli has top notch recipes and info. Converting recipes is a great way to preserve your heritage. You should purchase those books I suggested. It covers everything. Which starter are you using?
Very basic ratio is 3% salt .25% Prague powder and 2% dextrose for fermented sausages. I would have to consult the book to verify.
Take care Lloyd.March 10, 2014 at 10:24 am #7955
The recipes I have call for a few different starters. Although I have been sticking with tspxMarch 10, 2014 at 11:22 am #7956
The other thing that makes me wonder is why does Len Poli’s recipe suggests that once cured, the lonzino be fermented at 80deg for 12 hrs, and then moved into the dry chamber. The UMAI recipe and many more I have found online seem to go straight from the curing stage to the drying stage. What am I missing by skipping the 80deg for 12 hrs?
Thanks nick-March 10, 2014 at 3:37 pm #7957
Fermentation is important. It lowers AW and PH. Different cultures have requirements that call for specific temps . The UMAI bags make it possible to dry age without special equipment but you still need to ferment. There are a lot of variables. A PH meter reader would be nice to have …… Lol. You gotta get those books they are a resource.
Give this a readMarch 10, 2014 at 8:49 pm #7958
I understand the PH level drops, and how different temps with different cultures are important. I also understand why fermenting dry sausage is so important with those cultures added.
But why does he suggest doing it with a lonzino , which contains no cultures, just salt and cure?March 10, 2014 at 9:04 pm #7959
And thank you for the book recommendations, I will ordering a few books today.
Here is the recipe I am questioning. There are no cultures , so why the 80 deg for 12 hrs? And why with a similiar recipe does umai’s recipe for lonzino require no 80 deg hanging before it begins to dry?March 10, 2014 at 9:16 pm #7960
You know I asked this very same question over at another forum a while back. I was told that fermenting in the initial stages helps generate the good mold on the outside at a faster rate. A kinda head start. Did Len spray on a mold culture ?
With the bags you don’t care.March 10, 2014 at 9:20 pm #7961
I see. That makes sense! Ok so I will skip the 80 deg, 12 hr hanging then. I assumed I could but wanted to verify before I ruined the meat. Thank you for being so informative.
He does not call for spray on mold with this recipe
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